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Speak Up

The following is an exchange during Friday's question period in the legislature between Opposition Tory member Bruce Fitch, a former energy minister in the previous Conservative administration, and Energy Minister Jack Keir on industrial benefits under the tentative agreement to sell most of the assets NB Power to Hydro-Québec:

Mr. Fitch: Obviously, today, the minister is really digging himself into a hole. He said that the negotiations with Quebec had the best actuaries and negotiators in all of North America. Obviously, he was not at the table. We are trying to ask him today "¦ Any of those great negotiators who were there would say: What price would you give us if we did not have rate reductions? Quebec would have set a price. They then would say: What price would you give us if we had those rate reductions for the large industrial consumers? That is what we are trying to ascertain today. If you had not asked for the rate reductions for the large industrials, what would the price of NB Power be for the people of Quebec? What would Quebec pay if we did not have those rate reductions?

Hon. Mr. Keir: I now understand why the member for Madawaska-les-Lacs "¦ Perhaps the member for Riverview tried to sell it too, I am not sure, but I know that the member for Madawaska-les-Lacs did. Now I guess I understand why they could not get a deal. They did not go in to negotiate. The fact of the matter is that we wanted to ensure long-term change in the economic development opportunities in New Brunswick in a positive way. We have an opportunity to do that with this proposed agreement. We have an opportunity, not just to stabilize and help grow the industry that is in New Brunswick, but to grow industry in New Brunswick with this deal. We are going to grow industry in New Brunswick, create more jobs, grow the population, and have a greater tax base in New Brunswick so that we can look after the most important social programs that we need and desperately require in New Brunswick.

Mr. Fitch: The minister, here today, has mentioned Jiffy Products and how much it is going to save - $200,000. He has mentioned some of the other companies in various ridings over the past few days, and the Premier has done so also. In the name of transparency and openness, can the minister provide the public and the opposition with a complete list of all the industrials and what they are going to save on this deal? The reason I want to do this is that if, in fact, those rate reductions had not occurred, maybe Hydro-Québec would have paid $10 billion for it. Then we could have taken that extra money, above and beyond the cost of the assets of NB Power, and reduced the net debt. It would potentially free up $300 million if we took another $5 billion and reduced the net debt by that amount. That would give us an amount of money that could pay for the programs we have talked about today, that could pay for the rate reductions each year. We could pay for the large industrials and give them the breaks that they need, not just turn around and sell all our assets, sell the farm, just to have a one-year bailout that will disappear next year. There could have been ways that it could have been done. That is my question: Will you give us a list of how much each industrial is going to save?

Hon. Mr. Keir: If I understand the member for Riverview correctly, if it were a $10-billion deal, he would be okay with that. It was a $10-billion deal, so I assume, Mr. Leader of the Opposition, that the member for Riverview is offside. I am not sure. It was a $10-billion deal. I am glad to have the member for Riverview standing up and agreeing with the government that this is a good deal for New Brunswickers. It is a good deal for the folks in Edmundston. They understand the importance of Fraser Paper. It is a great deal for Plaster Rock, because the people there understand that their sawmill is going to be open again. It is a great deal for the folks in St. Stephen, because they understand the importance of Flakeboard. It is a great deal for Blacks Harbour, because they understand the importance of Connors Bros. in their riding. It is a great deal for northeastern New Brunswick, for all the industries up that way that will benefit from this. I am glad to see that the member for Riverview is onside now.

Mr. Fitch: I cannot believe it. The Minister of Energy was brought in at the 11th hour of this deal, and the Premier has told him to sell it, regardless of what he has to do. Now he is making up stories here in the Legislature. I wonder if the stories he is making up include the one about the single mom he mentioned yesterday. He said: There is a single mom who cannot decide whether to buy electricity or buy food. Is that a real person, or did he just make that story up too? Did he tell the whole story of that single mom? Her rate is not going to go down. Her rate, under this deal that the minister has cooked up with Hydro-Québec, is not going to go down.

Mr. Speaker: Member, in your statement, you were insinuating that the minister was fabricating stories. Be careful. On this point of fabricating stories and whether they are true, we have to take the minister's word that they are. I would ask you to rephrase the question.

Mr. Fitch: I get another minute, so I will rephrase my question. The minister just made accusations toward me that were untrue, so I was asking him if other things he had said, such as the story he told about the single mother, were untrue. I will give him the benefit of the doubt, that there is a single mother out there who is having trouble paying her power bills and paying for food.

(Interjection.)

Mr. Fitch: That is right. There are many. I am just asking the minister. If he does not have a real name, that is fine, but did he tell that person the whole story? Did he tell that person that her rates were not going down under this deal? Her rates are not going down because he has decided to give all the relief to the industrials when there are other options available. Will the minister release the list of all the industrials and how much each of them is saving?

Hon. Mr. Keir: The fact of the matter is that every year, for the past three years, electricity rates have gone up in the province. There were lots of discussions with lots of folks, with lots of poverty groups, regarding how difficult it is for them to pay their power bills. I grew up on Victoria Street, in the North End of Saint John, so I do not need any lessons from the member for Riverview on poverty - not one. The fact of the matter is that we are going to try our very best to help those who are in poverty to make sure they can pay their electricity bills. The Minister of Social Development has put together a wonderful winter heating program that will help those folks get through that time period. I would end with this: Are you okay with a status quo that would increase electricity rates, moving forward, by a minimum of 3% every year and allow those folks who are already struggling to pay their electricity bills to continue to struggle to pay their bills? Is that okay? Just a year ago, the member for Madawaska-les-Lacs was saying: What are you going to do "¦

Mr. Speaker: Time. The time for question period is now over.