Chase to chief: save $1 million

Published Friday June 26th, 2009

City Deputy mayor wants to see benefits from review of the city's fire services

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SAINT JOHN - Deputy Mayor Stephen Chase says he wants the city to save $1 million or more on fire services next year, otherwise a review of the department will have been a waste of time.

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Noel Chenier/Telegraph-Journal
Saint John’s $20.3-million fire service eats up a good chunk of the city’s $127-million operational budget.

"This is probably the biggest operational review the city will undertake," said Chase, referring to the program common council signed off on earlier this week.

"What we need are ideas. It's not too difficult to understand what's being delivered and the cost. But what I'm looking for are innovative ideas on how we can still deliver a good fire service, meeting the needs of this community, but still save some money."

Fire Chief Rob Simonds is in charge of conducting the review, something that concerns Chase. He says Simonds has never shown a willingness to find big savings.

"The chief had every opportunity to do this before and he hasn't," Chase said, mentioning that the fire department's strong union culture makes it difficult for any manager looking at cutbacks. "It would likely be very difficult for him to introduce any ideas that would see any impact on his firefighters."

But Simonds says he understands what council wants and will follow the instructions it gave him.

The chief said in an interview that the review will for the first time outline the exact cost of every service provided by the fire department and how important it is. Once council sees the list, it will be able to decide what should stay or go.

"At no point did (council) say, 'Come back with a recommendation to, say, reduce your budget by x-y-z,' " Simonds said. "What they've asked me to do is identify the options, put a dollar value to them, and tell us what the implications are for each of them from the most significant, to the least significant."

The motion passed by council in May states the review should consider consolidating fire stations, introducing some volunteer firefighters, changing the response policy and reducing medical assistance calls, among other ideas. The politicians also wanted to know how the changes could affect residential insurance rates.

Coun. Gary Sullivan says he wants to see savings in every department, but pointed out that the $20.3-million fire service eats up a significant portion of the $127-million city budget. He said he's willing to wait and see what the findings are before he speculates where savings can be found.

"I don't have that level of expertise to know," he said.

"But the city doesn't have an unlimited chequing account. We need to be prepared to make hard decisions if necessary."

On Monday, council agreed to hire SMC Risk Management Services to conduct part of the review for $40,000. The chief clarified in the interview that the company was hired because council wanted to know how changes to fire service would affect insurance rates. He said the company wasn't hired because management at the fire department was too tied up with other work. SMC owns the proprietary rights to the data it uses for its insurance advice.

"This component, this pillar of the study, can only be done by the insurance industry themselves," Simonds said."They can quantitatively measure what we need, measure what we have and say, 'You know what, you have way too much fire protection for what you need' or conversely, 'You have too little.' At least what you have is a baseline assessment that's going to allow council to make informed decisions."

Staff at the fire department has been busy doing natural gas pipeline and LNG training in preparation for the big industrial project that's coming online at Mispec. That's why Simonds asked council to push the review's completion date from August to the end of September.

A steering committee, made up of one councillor from each of the four wards, will soon be in place to guide the fire chief in the review. The nominating committee - made up of the deputy mayor, Mayor Ivan Court and Councillor Joe Mott - is expected to meet Monday morning to consider appointments.

"They can provide me greater focus because we're talking about delivering this thing in roughly 90 to 100 days," Simonds said of the steering committee.

 

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Comments (37)

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We hear a lot of numbers tossed around, but I think the TJ should provide some real data. For example, if the budget os 20M, what are the budgets of other cities. I've heard the "old housing stock", etc lines, but having the hard numbers would help. It would also be useful to provide firefighters per capita, average wage rate, fire engines per capita. The more comparatives the better. Using selective facts can twist either side's arguments, but a 10 point comparison (or more) would be the proper basis for this review.
Another question I have is the benefit ratio. What is the cost of benefits as a percentage of total wages, and how doesit compare to other fire departments. In most industries it averages about 10%.
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owen meaney, rothesay on 26/06/09 07:41:01 AM AST
As with medical care,police protection,insurance coverage etc etc the real question here is how good is good enough. I don't think there is any question that the SJFD provides good fire protection. The question is...can we afford the level we have?

I agree with the previous poster. An important question is how does our level of protection and FD spending compare with other cities of a comparable geographic size and population?
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Port City, Saint John on 26/06/09 08:28:14 AM AST
Sure, cut back the fire dept more. Same a million dollars maybe? But what value do you put on life? If one person dies because of these possible cut backs to an essential service, would it have been worth the supposed milion dollar savings? Who will step up and say that was my fault?
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D Murray, Rothesay on 26/06/09 09:52:45 AM AST
call you own insurance company, ask how much your home insurance will go up when you revert from a class 2 urban rate to a class 3 rural rate. then decide if you actually save money.while he is at it Mr Chase should cut the police dept and replace them with security guards, think of the savings.perhaps Chase would have more credibility if he could actually hold down a job of his own.
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scott riccio, quispamsis on 26/06/09 09:59:37 AM AST
The one statement I don't understand is this:

"...he wants the city to save $1 million or more on fire services next year, otherwise a review of the department will have been a waste of time."

So...regardless of what a review says he wants cuts to justify the review itself?

I must be missing something.
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G. B., Rothesay on 26/06/09 10:01:30 AM AST
Owen you raise some good questions. But I would offer to you that basing stats on per capita in this city would not give a totally accurate picture. When your dealing with acceptable response times to emergencies you need to look at your resources per sq.km. How many firefighters on shift per sq.km? would be a more appropriate question. Saint John is such a large city ( all of Moncton would fit in half of Saint John )and therefore requires stations to service the outlying areas which are often without hydrants. Conversly you cannot neglect the core of the city where the bulk of the population is concentrated.

You also cannot discount the the fact that old housing stock, industry, a large influx of daytime population will also have an impact on the level of service needed. Hard numbers will not take these things into account, yet they are important considerations.

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nicks dad, Saint John on 26/06/09 10:03:18 AM AST
Savings can always be found.. whether it be in the administrative side of things or the operational side. But there has to be a mindset that accepts the need to cut costs and find ways to do it.

Instead of debating the need for a well trained FD I'd like to see ideas for savings in these comments.

This city needs to run a bit more efficiently and that calls for all stakeholders to make the changes needed.

Surely the city can find some savings so that the residents do not carry the largest portion of the load.
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Ella H., Saint John on 26/06/09 10:04:43 AM AST
Explain this Mr Titus.

approx. 200 firefighter, 90% of which are on the street. 20million budget

approx. 160 police officers, 40% of which work in an office or 9-5 monday to friday. 22Million dollar budget.

For 22 Million how come we don't have at least 200 police officers for our city. People wanted more police protection. Not less Fire protection
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Saint John Citizen, Saint John on 26/06/09 10:08:06 AM AST
Most people here know I'm a firefighter, and I hope that people recognize that I always try to present the best information I have available to me. In a nut shell this is what you as citizens have to decide for yourselves.

At the end of this review the chief will identify each service we provide and the costs associated with it. At that time the decisions will be made what kind of service the city needs.

But you should be aware of the possible outcomes of some of these decisions.

suppose you call 911 with an emergency. My son is caught in the surf at Bay Shore beach, my husband has fallen through the ice by the RKYC, a worker is trapped in confined space, a worker is injured on top of some scaffolding, there's been a hazardous spill at the train yard on Rothesay ave ,may basement is filling up with water and it may reach my electrical panel or my husband is having a heart attack.

These are all possible,realistic scenarios that have and could happen in this city. cont



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nicks dad, Saint John on 26/06/09 10:50:57 AM AST
So when you call 911 the answer on the other end of the line may be "I'm sorry sir or mam we no longer provide that service anymore".

Some of you may think i'm a fear mongor, and thats fine, but thats the reality of the situation.

Ultimately the decision is up to council and council will decide based on the input of the citizens. If they don't hear from you, whether your for or against cuts, then they will simply make the decision for you and I think we can all agree that its not this councils strong suit on most issues in this city.
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nicks dad, Saint John on 26/06/09 10:57:50 AM AST
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